Building Ziggy’s Roman Cafe: A Family-Friendly Restaurant Born From Parenting Reality

Alan Li (00:00)
All right. Today's guest, Helen Zhang is the co-founder of Ziggy's new restaurant in Dumbo, Brooklyn, named after her son, Ziggy. She was previously a hospitality PR veteran and brand marketer who walked away from 15 years in communications to open her own restaurant. She wanted something that had great drinks, serious food, but also was kid friendly. Helen, thanks so much for joining the opening soon podcast.

Helen Zhang (00:25)
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

Alan Li (00:28)
Well, I typically like to start pre ⁓ brick and mortar business and then we can talk about Ziggy's afterwards. So we'd love to hear a little bit more about what you were doing beforehand.

Helen Zhang (00:40)
Sure. So prior to starting Ziggy's, I spent my career in PR and brand marketing, both on the agency and brand side. basically helping brands big and small tell their own stories and create communities and get customers and all that good stuff. a lot of this work was actually for hospitality clients.

which is I think how I like caught this disease of wanting to be in the restaurant industry. And it's also how I met my husband who has been in the industry for many, many years. ⁓ So the idea for Ziggy's kind of came about after a lot of years being like hospitality industry adjacent. ⁓ And then yeah, deciding to take the plunge myself.

Alan Li (01:11)
Ha

Mm-hmm.

What were some of the lessons that you learned working on the agency side with restaurants or hospitality companies? Like what were some of the difficulties or challenges they face?

Helen Zhang (01:46)
Yes, great question. think being on the PR and marketing side first ⁓ now helps me so much as an operator because I know exactly what the marketing person needs. Now I have the...

privilege of being both the marketer and the operator. ⁓ just knowing that I think like doing PR for restaurants, there's always that tension of marketing versus ops. ⁓

operations is always moving quickly and ⁓ kind of ⁓ sometimes very spontaneously or putting out fires and kind of like just doing the day-to-day work that it takes to operate a brick-and-mortar business. ⁓ Whereas in marketing, like we have we plan quarters ahead for activations ⁓ and I think that background really helped me.

Alan Li (02:45)
Hmm.

Helen Zhang (02:50)
have this perspective of ⁓ learning how to work with operations teams to be more nimble ⁓ and also educating my operators and my managers and everyone I work with that there is this need to plan ahead if you want to be a successful business and gain an audience.

Alan Li (02:58)
Mm-hmm.

And what are the typical ways that ⁓ hospitality or restaurants like to market? it, ⁓ you know, because it's so localized, do they like to do a lot of digital marketing or is it like in-person activations or is it ⁓ out of home, sort of like billboards? Like what are the ways that they typically like to get the word out?

Helen Zhang (03:38)
It really depends on the kind of business that you have. ⁓ I've worked with hospitality groups, huge hospitality groups that have video billboards in Las Vegas. I've also worked with mom and pop shops.

Helen Zhang (04:03)
I ⁓ would say that I'm in the latter camp right now. ⁓ Community building is so, important to us being really what we strive to be as a neighborhood restaurant. ⁓ So that's what we're focused on right now. ⁓ I am leaning into doing a lot of in-person events. ⁓

Alan Li (04:24)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (04:25)
I think like in the months before we opened, we were already doing in-person activations before we even had access to our brick and mortar space. I was doing pop-ups. ⁓ I was ⁓ hosting like kids activities at like local street fairs ⁓ in the neighborhood. So ⁓

Alan Li (04:45)
wow.

Helen Zhang (04:47)
And but that's because I knew like who my audience was and it was going to be locals and the residential community here in Dumbo. So I was very adamant to get in front of them early ⁓ for them to know who I was. Having that face to face interaction was was paramount to to our initial marketing strategy. ⁓

But know, like restaurants in general, it's so, you know, there are, as I said, like huge hospitality groups that, you know, you know, ⁓ multi-million months. ⁓ they, that's when I'm like, okay, it makes sense that like they're running meta ads or, you know, they have, actually don't.

Alan Li (05:24)
Yeah.

Hmm. Doing an ad on the sphere.

Helen Zhang (05:42)
Exactly, like doing it out on the sphere. Like

I've like, you know, I've like worked with Tal Group who like they have like tons of venues in Vegas and there and I would have to like approve messaging about their chefs that would go on these giant video screens like on the strip. So it's really ⁓ I think like the the channels that that you're using as a restaurant. It's really just dependent on like your size, your budget.

Alan Li (05:50)
Yes.

crazy.

Helen Zhang (06:11)
and how nimble you can be also. We don't pay for any marketing. ⁓ We just don't have the budget, but we do a ton on organic social, which is luckily free. ⁓ And if you are crafty enough and ⁓ you learn how to optimize your content and so that it has...

Alan Li (06:21)
Mm.

Mmm.

Helen Zhang (06:36)
the most reach in the communities that you're targeting. That can be just as an effective strategy, I think, as an out of home billboard on the Manhattan Bridge.

Alan Li (06:47)
Yep,

makes sense. ⁓ Really cool. And then I also noticed that you spent some time at High Growth Startup 10 doing communications as well. ⁓ How was that experience?

Helen Zhang (06:54)
Yes. Yeah.

It was singular. It was so fun. I joined really when they were building the company from zero to one. think now Tend has like over 30 locations up and down the East Coast. When I joined, think there were less than five. So to be on locations. Yeah. ⁓

Alan Li (07:18)
Less than five locations. Okay.

Helen Zhang (07:21)
⁓ Like maybe around five, but I think ⁓ we were only in New York at the time when we joined, ⁓ when I joined it was, ⁓ but we had just gotten, I think, Series C funding. So like a big round of funding and it was like just, you know, boarding the rocket ship right before takeoff. was like, we were expanding into like, I think ⁓ I helped launch in Boston, DC.

Alan Li (07:43)
Yeah

Helen Zhang (07:52)
and a couple other it was like three market launches within the first like four months I was there. So it's just like a really fun experience of like

Working with really, really brilliant people. still obviously keep in touch with these people to this day and ⁓ having access to people outside of my function. So I learned so much about growth marketing and performance marketing, but also creative and how all of those functions work together to really go to market strategy. ⁓

Alan Li (08:31)
Yeah.

And for the audience who's listening, who doesn't know what Tend is, Tend is like the most beautiful, like dentist. It's like reinventing dentist offices.

Helen Zhang (08:33)
Go ahead. Yeah.

Oh yeah, 10 is...

Tend is like,

yeah, tend is, ⁓ it was always very easy. So I looked after comms and PR, included like organic social influencer, media relations, like corporate positioning, pretty much anything that sat under the communications umbrella. And, but I found it actually very easy to give an elevator pitch because it was literally one line. It's like the dentist that you look forward to, which if, mean, if you,

Alan Li (08:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm, I like that.

Helen Zhang (09:10)
who are a human being

that doesn't really exist. ⁓ And what really drew me to the company, I had come from a decade plus of marketing and PR, mostly in the hospitality industry, but also for bigger consumer brands, technology brands. And I saw Tend as really a lifestyle product ⁓ where it was like...

Alan Li (09:14)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (09:36)
you go into this spolic environment and you just happen to get your teeth cleaned. So that was just really intriguing to me. ⁓ And it was like a fun challenge as a marketer. like, I was like, this is like the least unsexy category that you can think of, like literally the dentist. ⁓ turning that into a super appealing experience to a lot of people, like people laugh, but I'm like, I...

Alan Li (09:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Helen Zhang (10:05)
was overseeing influencer marketing in the dental space, which is just so wacky and interesting, but it was a really fun experience.

Alan Li (10:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I feel like there's an influencer for every type of niche category these days. And it doesn't surprise me that there's, there's one for dentistry now too.

Helen Zhang (10:19)
Yes.

Nope, not at all. ⁓ what was really fun about it was that ⁓ it was actually a lot of just general lifestyle influencers because you realize that everyone has to go to the dentist at some point.

Alan Li (10:36)
Mm.

That makes sense. Awesome. Well, ⁓ these obviously sound like really relevant experiences to you doing your own thing in Brick and Mortar. So ⁓ tell me a little bit about ⁓ how you founded Ziggy's.

Helen Zhang (10:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

So ⁓ the idea for Ziggy's Roman Cafe, was, ⁓ there's like a few overlapping forces, but I guess one was.

very personal in that like my husband has, as I said, has been in the hospitality industry his whole career. We've always loved like supporting the industry and the community. We've always gone out to eat at like the most amazing places just as ⁓ like a secondhand effect of like being him being in the industry. ⁓ And then this.

Alan Li (11:30)
Yeah. And your husband

is also one of the co-founders of Employees Only. Cool. Which is like a really popular bar that I've frequented as well multiple times. Yeah.

Helen Zhang (11:36)
Yes, ⁓ employees only was like.

Yeah, everyone has an employees only story. yeah,

employees only is like what is now I think 21 years old. But it was really at like the forefront of the ⁓ he hates the word mixology, but it was at the forefront of like the craft cocktail movement, I would say, in like the early 2000s.

Alan Li (11:54)
Wow.

Mmm.

Helen Zhang (12:08)
And it's been on the world's 50 best bars list over a dozen times. I say that, yeah, really cool. And I say that not to brag, but just to make the point that we were very spoiled being in the industry and experiencing. Yeah, no, he's so humble and he hates when I like.

Alan Li (12:14)
Really cool.

It's okay to ⁓

Helen Zhang (12:33)
talk about him

and his accomplishments. But ⁓ my point being, we were just always exposed to the best food and beverage experiences. ⁓ When we were dating after we married and then into becoming parents. So we just have these very high standards of what the food and beverage experience should be. And I think that... ⁓

Alan Li (12:58)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (13:02)
starting Ziggy is it really came from our like filling our own personal need. Like we really stopped going out to eat when we had kids. We became parents. ⁓ And you know that if you have kids like going out to eat with kids is a literal nightmare. ⁓

So we went when we were like in the first early years, we were like just very heads down in parenting. like really lost that like zest for life. We dreaded going out to eat. We were just like eating at food halls on the weekends. We would get Shake Shack.

Alan Li (13:27)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (13:37)
Like it was that that was like what, you know, we were like, OK, it was a success. Like this weekend we got to like go to DeKalb Market in downtown Brooklyn and like have a meal. And the kids were like going insane. But it's fine. ⁓ So we yeah, we know you don't realize until you become a parent like how few truly like inclusive family friendly spaces there are. ⁓

Alan Li (13:54)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (14:06)
for people who wanna still have that elevated dining experience. ⁓

Alan Li (14:12)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (14:15)
just happened to have a gaggle of kids with them. ⁓ So that was our attempt to fill that white space. We just wanted a place to serve delicious food. And the reason we chose Roman food and because it's pizzas and pastas is because everyone loves Italian food. It's really easy. ⁓

Alan Li (14:22)
Mmm.

Helen Zhang (14:42)
for picky eaters and for kids. Crowd pleaser, ⁓ we work with amazing chefs. And obviously we have really good drinks because of my husband's background. So we just wanted to create that experience, but also build this space, this community for. ⁓

Alan Li (14:43)
like a crowd pleaser. Yeah.

Helen Zhang (15:05)
people going through the same thing as us. And it's not to say that like, you can't come to Ziggy's if you don't have kids because we have people who come all the time on date nights and you know, girls night out and all of that. ⁓ But we do have a soft spot for you know, people who rock up with a stroller and they're like, my kid is hungry, I need a butter noodle on the table in seven minutes and we're like, we got you.

Alan Li (15:30)
Wow. A lot of my friends are having kids and ⁓ we're also expecting pretty soon as well. Thank you. ⁓ So, you know, if we had filmed this maybe a year or two ago, I probably wouldn't have as much empathy or context, but ⁓ like just seeing my friends go through it and then for us as well, I'm just like, my gosh, I heard, you know, once you have kids, you rarely go out. It's just much more difficult as you said. So.

Helen Zhang (15:35)
Yeah. my God, congrats.

Yeah.

Alan Li (15:58)
This is a really ⁓ relevant ⁓ restaurant for us.

Helen Zhang (16:01)
Yeah. You're gonna have

so much fun. It is, ⁓ I mean, it changes who you are at your very core, but ⁓ I would say becoming a parent is like the thing that changes your life the most. For the better and just like, you know, your perspective shifts on everything, but you're right. Like it's just hard. Like I see, I see.

people going through it. It's like you just are so you like kind of hard to keep your keep who you are like you it's hard your whole identity shifts. You're just like I am Rio's mom. I'm Ziggy's mom. There are people who I see like all the time but they don't know they don't know my name. They're just like ⁓ now I'm like she's the owner of Ziggy's but like for a long time it's like that's so-and-so's mom. So yeah.

Alan Li (16:35)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

⁓ yeah. I

heard you become supporting cast instead of the main character. Yeah.

Helen Zhang (16:57)
Exactly. You

become, you know, you become Ziggy's mom in a lot of people's contacts. It's,

Alan Li (17:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

And so what about Ziggy's? it make it like kid-friendly? ⁓ Like how is it different from other restaurants?

Helen Zhang (17:15)
So I think the most obvious thing is we are lucky enough to have ⁓ a two floor space. So I'm actually here right now. It's like a mezzanine space. ⁓ And it's separate from our main dining room, but ⁓ from a real estate perspective, we're lucky enough to have the square footage too. We've built like a small play area ⁓ in our mezzanine. it's.

Alan Li (17:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Helen Zhang (17:41)
Very

simple. It's not any, it's not like a McDonald's playpen or a ball pit. It's quite literally like a small gym mat. It's probably like three by nine or like maybe four by four by 10. ⁓

Alan Li (17:46)
He

Helen Zhang (17:59)
with a small table and then some sensory toys. So there's some magnetiles, there's some stuffed animals, there's a couple of board games. ⁓ Not anything, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel, but ⁓ I think any parent will tell you when there's ⁓ some sort of novelty in a space where you're trying to get a meal in, the kids will gravitate towards it and it kind of like, it's just really keeps them

Alan Li (18:25)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (18:29)
occupied for a few minutes. They eat notoriously fast, at least like my kids do. They'll like shove down a couple of slices of pizza and then they're done. So this kind of gives the kids like something to do and gives the parents an opportunity to like sit and actually enjoy their meal, have that second spritz that they were wanting. And then, yeah.

Alan Li (18:34)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

So is it like, you know, if I'm to come in with my child, I have a meal there and then my kid finishes super fast and they go up to the mezzanine and like play around while I'm hanging out? wow. Okay, that's cool.

Helen Zhang (19:06)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so we actually have like dining up in the mezzanine too. So like typically what happens is like if you come and your family will send you upstairs if they're... And then...

Alan Li (19:16)
I see.

Got it.

Helen Zhang (19:24)
⁓ We also, we just also like train our team to be like super empathetic and accommodating. ⁓ We, I think it's hard to understand, especially like if you're not a parent, like sometimes like the kid just needs the food really fast. Like they're cranky, they're like on the verge of a meltdown. And so like we will have, we have like a system and like get them. ⁓

Alan Li (19:43)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (19:53)
And that, well, we have like standard stuff that restaurants have been doing forever. Like, again, not reinventing the wheel. Like, have a ⁓ fun coloring sheet. We'll have ⁓ crayons. ⁓ And I think it's just about the general attitude ⁓ of being inclusive and accommodating to everyone. Like, we have had so many experiences where when you like roll up to a restaurant with a stroller and you just like get that look.

Alan Li (20:03)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (20:23)
or like you can just feel it. So we try, we really make an effort to be welcoming to everybody.

Alan Li (20:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

Right. And how big is the space and how did you choose your location in Dumbo?

Helen Zhang (20:42)
⁓ The space is over, it's like 1500 square feet. it's definitely, we'll have like, we have like 70-ish seats. And then we'll have outdoor space in the spring, which is really exciting. ⁓

But we, our kids went to pre-K in Dumbo. So we were like pretty familiar with just like the neighborhood and also the parent community here, just from like our kids going to school here. And we had been kind of quietly looking for a space for a while, just like.

on the back burner at the time I was like, maybe I'll like help out on the side while I'm like working my corporate job. ⁓ And I think ⁓ we ended up finding, ⁓ we ended up finding this space that was like almost directly on the waterfront.

Alan Li (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (21:41)
And if you're familiar with Dumbo, you know that there are a lot of tourists here. It's like a very picturesque, Instagrammable neighborhood. People are always taking that notorious photo of the Manhattan Bridge ⁓ on Washington Street. so ⁓ we were like, is, mean, location-wise, really doesn't get better. It's like on the Brooklyn waterfront.

Alan Li (21:49)
Yes.

Uh-huh.

Helen Zhang (22:08)
and it will have, you know, it has a ton of tourist traffic, but it also has this thriving residential community ⁓ all around. ⁓ what's interesting about Dumbo is that because I think the tourist traffic is so heavy, a lot of the food and beverage concepts. So you have like the Time Out Market, which is like a big food hall. That's like a global chain of some sort, I think. So

super heavy tourist traffic. And then you have Dumbo House, which is a members club. And then you have a couple of other like high end restaurants. ⁓ But we, I think what we needed here in Dumbo was like more neighborhood restaurants. ⁓ We had been just hearing pleas from parents for years, like you guys should open something here. Like there's not enough places to eat. It's really like.

Alan Li (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (23:05)
I'm going to Chaconis, which is a beautiful restaurant on the waterfront. But like it's like a place where you celebrate your birthday or I'm eating at like Sweet Green. was like there's that middle ground like that. It's it's ⁓ there. There are some great places, but like there needs to there just like needed to be more ⁓ in comparison to like the number of people who actually live here. ⁓ So for all of those reasons, we.

were like, think this is like the perfect spot. And we ended up, yeah, just getting this lease. ⁓

Alan Li (23:41)
And

when did you ⁓ sign the lease?

Helen Zhang (23:43)
We signed the lease in late July, early August, and we had been looking at the space. No, of 25. Of 25. So we just opened in November of 25. And we fortunately inherited like...

Alan Li (23:51)
of 24.

25, okay.

Helen Zhang (24:05)
the space with great bones that was always a restaurant previously, so it had the infrastructure. We didn't have to do a ton of construction. It was a lot of just like cosmetic alterations ⁓ and some just some general like aesthetic things. ⁓ But, you know, I think it was only like two or three months of of that construction. And yeah, super fast and on like a super shoestring budget, we

Alan Li (24:11)
I see.

Mmm.

Pretty fast for a restaurant, yeah.

Helen Zhang (24:35)
That's I think one of the things we were the most proud of was like what we were able to do on such a scrappy budget, which is also very common theme in marketing too. You're always like working, working with a little and trying to do a lot. ⁓ So yeah, we, yeah.

Alan Li (24:46)
Yeah.

⁓ So a quick question on

the budget, can you say how much you had to spend on the renovations and did you have to raise funds for this or was this like through savings?

Helen Zhang (25:03)
Yeah, we did like friends and family fundraise of not a huge amount, ⁓ but we also contributed ourselves. ⁓ The renovation, honestly, we spent way less than we had originally budgeted for. were just like...

Alan Li (25:08)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (25:24)
making deals left and right. were like our marble supplier like gave it gave our marble to us at cost because like my husband had like a mutual friend with him from you know 20 years ago. It was like we were just ⁓ we were really just hustlers in in building it out. So ⁓ we spent like I think very low like low six figures ⁓ on everything and

Alan Li (25:49)
Mm-hmm. And everything. Wow.

Helen Zhang (25:56)
It's funny because in the beginning, my husband and I would get into fights about the renovation and stuff because he would always say, if it was up to you, we would be building out a $5 million restaurant. And I'd be like, yeah.

Alan Li (26:14)
⁓ you

were pushing the budget and he's like, hold on, we need to take it back a bit.

Helen Zhang (26:18)
Yeah, he I mean, he's

been doing it for so long. So he knows ⁓ he knows like where the savings can be found. And he's done it many times. So ⁓ so yeah, I was like more of the dreamer and like the you know, exactly. I was like, you know, the pie in the sky ideas person and ⁓

Alan Li (26:35)
Yeah, well you need both.

Helen Zhang (26:43)
trying to put everything on my vision board. And he'd be like, we don't have $10 million. Can you stop? I feel like, why can't we just do it? ⁓ But we ended up finding a very happy medium just through, again, good relationships, ⁓ a great architect who was very scrappy, and yeah, just also inheriting good bones.

Alan Li (27:10)
Mm-hmm.

Cool. ⁓ So you renovate in just two, three months and were able to open late last year. ⁓ How did you get the word out in the beginning? I know that you were saying you were doing in-person activations even before the restaurant opened. What was your ⁓ marketing approach?

Helen Zhang (27:30)
⁓ Yes, a lot of, I think in the beginning I really focused on community building and getting the word out. ⁓ One thing that was actually extremely helpful that I didn't anticipate was ⁓ when we first gained access to the space, we put a vinyl, which is, you're in the signs business, you know.

Alan Li (27:57)
Yeah, yeah, on the Windows.

Helen Zhang (27:59)
We put a big vinyl on the windows and this is actually something ⁓ that we used to do in my tend days. That was a huge acquisition channel for us, like at Tend was putting a vinyl on the windows and putting ⁓ the website and get on the wait list. Here's the website, here's the Instagram. ⁓ And so I...

Alan Li (28:19)
Mmm.

Helen Zhang (28:23)
followed in that footstep and we put a big vinyl on our window of a drawing that was like inspired by my kids drawings but our logo is like a Godzilla, a version of Godzilla and so we did a illustration of Godzilla napping in the Roman Coliseum.

Alan Li (28:35)
Wow, that's fun.

Helen Zhang (28:49)
And this vinyl is like takes up, three storefront windows. It's huge. And it just said like Ziggy's Roman Cafe coming soon with our Instagram handle. And I believe I think we did. And then we did like a sandwich board outside that had a QR code to join our email list. So I was very.

Alan Li (28:53)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (29:12)
⁓ adamant to build an email list from early on because I know it's like really the only way you can own your customers ⁓ is via email because you just never know what's going to happen to the platforms in this volatile world. ⁓ So I was pretty adamant to start building that list early on and ⁓ so every ⁓ at every touch point whether it was like the window vinyl ⁓ that led to our Instagram it was it would always

Alan Li (29:25)
Exactly, exactly.

Helen Zhang (29:42)
link to a page where you could join our email list. And I just like incentivized it with, ⁓ I think over the summer we did merch drops. And I say like drops as if like we're like Kith, but it was literally just like me and my friend buying t-shirts from Target and ⁓ and like heat transferring our logo and then like giving out the shirts.

Alan Li (29:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

heat transferring design.

Helen Zhang (30:09)
for free at like local events. But it was actually, ⁓ it was really magical, like how the community just like came on board. I would have people emailing me and saying like, I want a Ziggy's t-shirt. How do I get one? This is like months before we open, like maybe like five, six months before we open. So ⁓ I think just like building that anticipation from the start. ⁓

Alan Li (30:12)
That's amazing.

Wow.

Helen Zhang (30:39)
And then we had amazing branding partners too, ⁓ an agency called Picnic, who designed this incredible brand system, I think that actually just got people really intrigued from the start. Like, okay, this is a cute business in the neighborhood that has really good branding. What's it all about? And I think peaking their interests ⁓ from a graphic perspective. And then...

leading them to ⁓ a page where they can learn more and get updates was really key. And then I think, I don't know how big it is today, but by the time we opened, had over 1,000 people on my email list. ⁓

Alan Li (31:19)
Nice.

Helen Zhang (31:20)
And then we also, another, because you could tell I'm very big on in-person events, another thing we did was throw a big opening preview party. And this was, it's ironic because I worked in PR for a very long time and usually you'll do a media preview or just a VIP event for like...

celebrities or influencers or journalists. And I threw a party like for the neighborhood. So it was like open bar and pizza for for everyone who was on my email list. And when I say we have like a wait list of like a couple hundred people to like RSVP to our opening party, which like to me is like now looking back.

Alan Li (31:51)
⁓

Wow.

Helen Zhang (32:06)
quite insane for like a 1500 square foot restaurant in Brooklyn that no one's heard of. ⁓ But we, yeah, I think that was like a core memory for me from 2025 is just like 400 people showing up to like our restaurant that hadn't opened yet to like celebrate with us.

Alan Li (32:12)
Yeah.

That's

amazing. I mean, how many people can you fit in the restaurant? feel like that would, that's like, yeah.

Helen Zhang (32:31)
Not 400, definitely not 400.

Probably more like 100 to 150. Very, very. This was like staggered. People were staggered. It was a lot of outside spillover. At one point, I considered calling the cops on myself. was like, I think I was like, how am I shutting? I was like, how am I going to shut it down? Like I might have to just like call the cops. Luckily, we didn't have to do that.

Alan Li (32:37)
Okay, but this is just like packed. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

We need to shut it down.

That's actually a brilliant idea.

Helen Zhang (32:58)
Yeah, I thought that

Alan Li (32:59)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (33:02)
would be really smart. And I actually have a friend who's in the NYPD and I texted him the day before and I was like, what do you think about this? And he was like, please don't. So, cut shut down quickly, but I thought it would have been funny. But yeah, luckily we just turned the lights on and people got the hint. But it was a great party.

Alan Li (33:15)
guys.

Yeah, I love the like just leveraging what you have because in Dumbo there's probably what thousands of people that walk by your restaurant every day and then like, you know, if it's an interesting, cool vinyl cover on the windows, ⁓ it gets people excited. So it makes sense.

Helen Zhang (33:30)
Yes.

Yeah, which I

totally underestimated. was like, ⁓ I did not think there was that amount of street traffic or just like people traffic on the sidewalk. ⁓ And but we like to this day, we haven't even taken we haven't taken the vinyl down yet. It's because it's clear with like the with an illustration. So you can see through it like. ⁓

Alan Li (33:58)
⁓

Helen Zhang (34:03)
with through the window and we haven't we haven't taken it down yet because people still like walk by and they take photos of it and like they they're intrigued and it's it's still like part of our brand identity so I think eventually we will take it down but ⁓ but it's it's still there for now.

Alan Li (34:11)
Mmm.

Really cool. ⁓

So, you know, we're in February, end of February now, and it's been about three, four months since opening. How has the journey been so far?

Helen Zhang (34:27)
you

It's been wild. I tell people that every day I wake up and I feel like I'm just going to war. ⁓ Like no two days look the same. ⁓ It truly is like a disease that you catch when you're like, want to open a restaurant. like, I don't know why anyone would do this, but people do. But it has been incredibly rewarding, I think, just

meeting so many people who want to genuinely support us. I think that's been the best part. We've seen a lot, I think the most reassuring part of ⁓ our journey has been people have become regulars. We have a lot of repeat customers. ⁓ We have families that come that they've made it like their Friday night ritual. They'll come do pizza at Ziggy's. ⁓

Alan Li (35:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Helen Zhang (35:29)
And we've seen a lot of people ⁓ come and wanna do birthday parties with us or big events. ⁓ So it's been interesting just trying to figure out the lanes of the business to build and how to prioritize all of those things because we are such a lean team. ⁓ I wish I could just be the marketer, but unfortunately I'm also like...

the content creator, the event salesperson, sometimes like the the Baldor food delivery recipient. So it's just it's wearing a lot of different hats and trying to prioritize a lot of different functions. But in terms of business, it's been really great. It's been like people showing up again, like over and over again.

Alan Li (36:12)
Uh-huh.

Helen Zhang (36:21)
think that's the part I'm the most excited about. And then we're getting our sidewalk license soon. So as soon as it gets nice outside, we're gonna have an amazing sidewalk cafe with a ton ⁓ of seats and people will be able to have their spritzes outside ⁓ right on the Brooklyn waterfront. So that's something I'm really looking forward to.

Alan Li (36:34)
Nice.

Yeah.

And what were maybe some of the unexpected challenges that you faced as well?

Helen Zhang (36:52)
⁓ gosh, ⁓ where do I begin? Well, I would say like when when we were building, we were moving so quickly that sometimes like you don't like cross your T's and dot your I's. for example, like we didn't realize that Con Ed was not our gas vendor until

Alan Li (37:02)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (37:12)
literally we were trying to turn on our gas for our chef to start cooking ⁓ in the like one month before opening. We were like, we're going to start testing recipes. We're going to turn on the gas. ⁓ We already have a Con Ed account, like we're good. there was nothing turned on when we did this. And then a friend of mine who actually works at Con Ed, I called her and she was like,

Alan Li (37:34)
Ha ha ha.

Helen Zhang (37:42)
Connad does not serve Brooklyn for gas, you're on the National Grid. And I was like, what is National Grid? what? None of us had any idea. ⁓ And now that I'm very familiar with National Grid and they are... ⁓

They are very bureaucratic and everything takes a long time, even when you like, it's very hard to like skip the line. So I think they had quote, they were like, it's going to take like 90 days to get your gastronomist. We're like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Like we need to start cooking. Yeah. It's something ridiculous. You know, it's like one, it's like one of those like take a number and, and wait kind of things. So, ⁓

Alan Li (38:10)
wow.

90?

What?

my gosh.

Helen Zhang (38:24)
we ended up, we had to like just like call every day and get you know beg for help and then go in person and do all these things but eventually we did get our gas turned on ⁓ but that was like a very memorable very memorable fuck up in the early in the early days ⁓ and then in terms of other challenges I think

Alan Li (38:41)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (38:51)
Yeah, my husband was ⁓ very adamant to start with like a simple menu. I again, being like the pie in the sky marketing person, I was like, I want to have this and that and you know, ⁓ I want to have like a different lasagna special every week and I want to do this pastry that I had in Rome that was amazing and

Alan Li (38:58)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (39:16)
I had like grand schemes plotted and he brought me down to earth. And I think, you know, that was actually a great thing because just opening with like a simpler menu of things that like you know are going to be delicious, but that also helped us manage just, you know, our payroll and like our labor and operations exactly. So I think.

Alan Li (39:34)
Mm-hmm.

operations. Yeah, simplicity.

Helen Zhang (39:44)
We're excited now because we just launched brunch and we're like kind of testing the waters a bit on new dishes and experimenting more in the kitchen and having some fun with that. But ⁓ to start, I'm very happy that I listened to him and we like started with a simpler menu.

Alan Li (40:03)
Yeah.

How big is the team at Ziggy's right now?

Helen Zhang (40:07)
Um, we, it's like my husband and I, have another managing partner who is his best friend of like 30 years, which is very interesting dynamic because we're just like one big happy family. And then we have front of house and back of house teams, I'd say like between 20 to 25 people. Yeah.

Alan Li (40:17)
Mm-hmm.

2025.

gotcha. And then you recently launched Brunch. What's next, you know, over the next few months or over the course of the next year?

Helen Zhang (40:43)
⁓ We're looking forward to outdoor patio season for sure. ⁓ We are going to launch lunch in the next.

month or two. Right now we're only open for dinner and brunch. So to be able to have like a neighborhood lunch offering, think will help the business a lot just in terms of not just the residential community, but like there are so many like offices and commercial tenants in Dumbo as well that I think also are going to really love what we're doing during the day.

Alan Li (40:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm

That makes sense. Do you ever because you're in such a touristy area, do you ever get tourists that come in expecting, ⁓ you know, like a normal restaurant, but then all of sudden there's like a playpen upstairs and like kids running around and like, what the heck is going on here?

Helen Zhang (41:31)
Yes.

⁓

It's very interesting. There's definitely a vibe shift around like 7 p.m. and it turns to like more of like a adult ⁓

Alan Li (41:40)
Uh-huh.

Helen Zhang (41:43)
just normal restaurant. we have gotten, yeah, we have gotten tourists who come in and first they're confused because the restaurant is called Ziggy's Roman Cafe, but it's really a misnomer because we're a full, full service restaurant. So we first get tourists who come in and think like, oh, I need like coffee to go. So they're expecting like a barista situation and we're like, next door to Don's. They've got all your to go coffee needs. And then yeah, there'll be people, but people are on

They're delighted. They find that... ⁓

they think it's like a differentiator and it's interesting. And I think the concepts like this are a lot more common in Europe and other parts of the world. So I think like it's also fun for tourists to see that. And yeah, I think we like got a Google review once that was like a one star very negative review, but it was...

Alan Li (42:21)
Mm-hmm.

huh.

Helen Zhang (42:47)
It was like, I think it said like very odd concept. I was sitting at the bar getting drunk while there was a playpen upstairs of ⁓ kids yelling. And I like, I don't know if I commented, but I really wanted to comment back saying like, I don't get why this is a bad review. Like, why is this a once a review? This sounds like a really fun, unique, awesome experience to me.

Alan Li (43:07)
I know.

Yeah, it's like surprisingly

one of the best drinks I had, but ⁓ there was like kids screaming. That's funny.

Helen Zhang (43:17)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

it's, yeah, it's fun. And we're also like, we're trying to figure out to like, how to cater to different audiences. Like, we intentionally built a very sophisticated bar program ⁓ so that we would attract people who like...

enjoy elevated drinks and delicious food ⁓ while still being inclusive to the little toddlers that want to come play upstairs.

Alan Li (43:51)
Yeah.

Helen, what's it like working with your husband?

Helen Zhang (43:58)
Ugh.

Alan Li (44:00)
starting something as a couple.

Helen Zhang (44:02)
it is, this is a really good question. it definitely, there are definitely moments of high tension, especially in the beginning when we were building. I think, at our, you know, it's.

Alan Li (44:13)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (44:21)
It's both a challenge and it's also an advantage in a lot of ways because as a married couple, you have like a foundation of intrinsic trust in each other that like, hey, ⁓ I trust your taste and you trust mine. And I also like trust, you know, your instincts ⁓ and your experience. So that part I think is an advantage, but. ⁓

it can definitely get messy and emotional, especially ⁓ when there's feedback or criticism. I do not, I hate negative feedback of any kind. Personally, I am like, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me feedback. I'm like that meme that's like, yeah, when I said, me feedback, I meant like only positive feedback. So ⁓ and then that also, you know, stings more when it's coming from.

Alan Li (45:09)
Hahaha

Helen Zhang (45:17)
the person you love and like your life partner. it ⁓ cuts both ways. But I think in the end, it's like a it's a huge privilege to like ⁓ be able to do something together. And like also as a family, like I am so ⁓ joyful to be like building a family business to like.

Alan Li (45:18)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Helen Zhang (45:42)
model for my own kids that what like entrepreneurship looks like and that like we're building this together. You know, it's like it's teamwork. We all like are sacrificing every day. Like my kids are sacrificing like not having their mom do bedtime every night because like she's working or like. ⁓

And my husband is doing a lot more pickups from school because I'm at the restaurant. ⁓ So that part has been extremely rewarding, ⁓ just modeling this for the kids. But yeah, it does not come without its touchy moments and its challenges.

Alan Li (46:26)
Yeah. Yeah. No, thanks for sharing that. ⁓ I I'm, you know, I started both of our businesses with my wife as well. And I'm a big, yes, I'm, I, I'm a big, ⁓ believer in like couple or like married couple founded businesses. And I think it's a, it's such a life hack because you're together all the time. So there's never usually like communication barriers when, know, you might be starting something with someone else and it's like, let's hop on a zoom or.

Helen Zhang (46:33)
Yeah, I was going to say, you know this well.

Alan Li (46:55)
then you have to go home. then, you know, to your point, it kind of bleeds into personal life. And then how do you like separate things and how do you like just not talk about business all the time? ⁓ But I if it works, I think it works really, really well. But then, you know, on the counter, it can it can be harmful if not done right.

Helen Zhang (47:03)
Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah, no,

you're right that it is a life hack. It's extremely efficient.

because when you have a question or just like you need to sink on something, you're literally like I'm in we live together so we can just like have a five minute chat like while we're having dinner. It's it is it is extremely efficient. ⁓ But also, yeah, like then you have to really determine what the boundaries are to keep them healthy. And like, I think.

Alan Li (47:20)
Yes, very efficient.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Helen Zhang (47:49)
Yeah, think ⁓ at one point when we were building, was all we were talking about at home, ⁓ which sucks for the kids. It was probably very annoying for them and ⁓ they're five and seven.

Alan Li (47:58)
Yeah, same.

And how old are your kids now?

Five and seven, okay.

Helen Zhang (48:07)
So and they're

they're both boys. So like they keep us very physically active. And they're also like at the age where they're both like so chatty and curious about everything. Everything is like, why, why, why this, why that? Who are you talking about? And now like they can both like read now, which is annoying because they're like over my shoulder, like reading my emails, being like, what, what's this? Who are you talking to? Why are you texting so and so's mom? And like, guys, leave me alone.

Alan Li (48:30)
Yeah.

Ha ha

ha.

Helen Zhang (48:36)
But yeah, it's been really fun.

Alan Li (48:39)
Yeah, what do your kids think about your restaurant?

Helen Zhang (48:44)
I think they probably take it for granted. like, we actually... ⁓

They treat it like it's their house. They come in, they're running up and down, and I'm like, guys, this is a place of business. Please stop, sit down. I usually try to just keep them in one spot when they're here, because they truly do. They'll go behind the bar and make themselves a sprite. I'm like, this is not okay. I think they, I hope that they like it. ⁓ They've become, you know,

Alan Li (49:04)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (49:21)
the kids at school were like, the kids are coming up to them being like, my God, I went to your restaurant. And like the teachers kind of know and ⁓ it's become like a thing for them. So I hope it's not something that they are self conscious about. And I hope it's something that they'll one day like be proud of and ⁓ be happy that they, I mean, they were really the core inspiration for the whole journey. So ⁓ I'm hopeful.

Alan Li (49:29)
That's so fun.

Yeah.

Helen Zhang (49:49)
And I also like, I don't know, I think it's very, I think it's important for them to learn at a young age, what, not only what work ethic looks like, but what risk taking looks like. ⁓

Alan Li (50:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (50:06)
and just building something from scratch and having really to like no one else to depend on. ⁓ I don't know, I immigrated here with my parents when I was four and financial stability was never a thing when I was growing up. But for that reason, my parents were so financially conservative and just like... ⁓

The most important thing was stability and having a stable job and a pension and saving for a home and not rocking the boat. So I did not grow up, I grew up in a very risk averse environment ⁓ in terms of business and ⁓ entrepreneurship.

Alan Li (50:58)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (50:59)
So

it's been very uncomfortable for me to do something so different from the way I grew up, but ⁓ I hope it.

Alan Li (51:08)
How did you

⁓ get past that challenge to entrepreneurship, which is probably the most risky thing you can do?

Helen Zhang (51:15)
Yeah, I mean,

I think it was definitely like when I was working in PR and marketing forever, like, I would always get the question like, why don't you just like start your own thing or like, you know, like, go out on your own. That's a lot. ⁓ It's very common, like, for for, you know, ⁓ good PR people to like.

Alan Li (51:30)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (51:40)
go out on their own and start their own shop and like people would always ask me. ⁓ And I was like, no, I don't want, don't, like being an employee. Like I don't, I don't want to be responsible for like other people's livelihoods or payroll or like health insurance or like any of those things. ⁓

Alan Li (51:42)
Yeah.

Helen Zhang (51:58)
But I think like I just got to a point, honestly, like after having kids, I was like, if I don't try to do something and build something of my own now, like I probably won't ever do it. And I think I'll probably regret never trying because like what's the worst that can happen? You fail and you had just like a really expensive lesson and you learned a lot. ⁓

Alan Li (52:09)
Mm-hmm.

Helen Zhang (52:23)
there are no mistakes, there are just lessons. So ⁓ I think it was just getting older and not having a midlife crisis, but realizing not if I would always regret it if I didn't try.

Alan Li (52:42)
Yeah, and it seems like this is, it's like an idea that really resonates with you and it's because of your kids as well and it's a need that you wanted to exist. So it's not like I'm just doing it for the sake of doing it. It's just like, yeah.

Helen Zhang (52:54)
Totally and like

I've I mean I am really fortunate to like have a group of friends who are all very entrepreneurial and have brilliant ideas and like You know, we've tossed around dozens of like business ideas over the years ⁓ But I think what has made this one

so successful is that like I'm my it's so intertwined with my personal story and people are really invested in It's it resonates with so many people the same story resonates with so many people in this community and I think like creating so much content in the beginning about ⁓ like why I started the business and and the journey along the way like God ⁓

Alan Li (53:20)
guess.

Helen Zhang (53:42)
others to feel invested in my success as well. So, ⁓ yeah.

Alan Li (53:50)
Yeah,

it seems authentic, so.

Helen Zhang (53:54)
We're trying our best.

Alan Li (53:57)
⁓ Awesome. Well, Helen, I know that it's only been a few months since you opened, but almost a year on this journey. Looking back ⁓ on everything you've done with Ziggy's, ⁓ is there anything that you would have changed knowing what you know now?

Helen Zhang (54:14)
⁓ good question. ⁓

Probably a million little things. ⁓ Yeah, probably a ton of things, but honestly, just wish that I had, this is like so Asian of me, but I just wish that I had like worked more. Yeah, I just wish that I had like worked, put more hours in and worked and have basically had a clone of myself. Like I feel like, like.

Alan Li (54:29)
Mm-hmm.

Worked more? ⁓ wow.

Helen Zhang (54:55)
I was just telling my husband today, I'm like, you know what? I think I'm gonna try to build an AI agent to clone myself so that I can be twice as productive.

try to do more things, but I don't know. just, I think it's very easy to compare, to like compare with other businesses and like, and other successes. And I'm just like, I just, I don't know. I'm like, I wish I just like worked more and did more, but there's time. There's, you know.

Alan Li (55:30)
it's still so early and then also AI is improving so fast you might actually get your clone pretty soon.

Helen Zhang (55:32)
Still so early. Right, I'm

going, ⁓ next time we talk, you'll be talking to a robot version of me, AI Helen, I don't know.

Alan Li (55:41)
AI Helen. And the funny thing is,

I'll be AI too. So it's just going to be two AIs talking to each other, but it's, but it's going to be a full on podcast update.

Helen Zhang (55:46)
Yeah, it'll just be two AIs. Yes.

Totally, totally. It's

gonna be two agents chatting with each other.

Alan Li (55:59)
Crazy world. Well, I mean, you the one thing AI is probably going to disrupt last is food and restaurants. So, you know, that's, that's a good thing about the industry.

Helen Zhang (56:07)
Yeah. God willing,

I am, I know, I am really hoping my kids like both become like HVAC technicians. Cause I'm like, what are we, what, what are we doing? Like we need to just have like AI proof careers, all, everyone in this family.

Alan Li (56:17)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

⁓ Helen, this is really fun. ⁓ If people want to get in touch, follow along, what's the best way for them to do so?

Helen Zhang (56:35)
We are on Instagram at Ziggy's Roman Cafe. We're also on TikTok. ⁓ I am on both Instagram and TikTok. My handle's tequila mom. ⁓ Yeah, funny, funny story. Yes, I had a fun past. didn't want, you know, it's like when you don't wanna throw away, like, ⁓

Alan Li (56:47)
You had a fun past.

Helen Zhang (56:57)
old clothes that you'll never wear again, but you're like, want to keep this one piece because I just have so many fond memories with her. And that's, that's, that's me, but with tequila. and what else we, you can always email us chow at Ziggy's Roman cafe.com. would love to hear from, from any of all of you.

Alan Li (57:05)
Yeah.

Awesome. All right, Helen, we'll have to stop by Ziggy's at some point in the near future. But yeah, really appreciate your time.

Helen Zhang (57:24)
You will have to stop by, yes.

Thank you so much. ⁓