From Dishwasher to $6MM Dallas Restaurateur: The Unexpected Journey of Stéphane Courseau

Alan Li (00:01)
Today's guest is Stephan, who is a French-born Dallas restaurateur and the founder of Travis Street Hospitality. Stephan, thanks so much for joining the Opening Soon podcast.

stephan (00:14)
Thank you for having me.

Alan Li (00:17)
All right, so before we dive into Travis Street hospitality, I'd love to go back to when you first arrived in America and you started off as a dishwasher. Talk to me about that journey.

stephan (00:27)
Yes.

I think a lot of people did, right? Arriving to America, this is another low-scale job. I moved to New York from Paris back in 1987. I was 21 years old and I think a nice life in Paris, you know, in many ways because it's a beautiful place. But I was not motivated by what I was doing at the time, which was law school. I went to law school. I was also doing some acting school and, you know, really trying to

find a path that would emulate me. And I'd never been to the States, ⁓ but I had like many French people, I mean, many people in the world. mean, it's not, it goes behind France or anywhere else. I had a very strong desire and attraction, you know, towards the United States. And I decided, you know, kind of on a whim with a friend of mine that I met in acting school. And we came together, not really knowing what was there for us.

Alan Li (01:28)
Okay, so did you drop out of law school or did you drop out of acting school to come to the US?

stephan (01:31)
Yeah, I

dropped out of everything. Yes, yes, I I came really with no real expectations, very little money, not speaking English at the time. And therefore, you know, very difficult to find a job. And that's why I was lucky enough to find one, but it was a dishwasher job because I knew very little.

Alan Li (01:35)
Okay. So.

So you knew you wanted to be in the US, but you didn't know what you were gonna do. And then you just bought a, what was it, a plane ticket or a boat ticket to the US?

stephan (02:01)
Yes, absolutely.

So

actually a friend of mine got me a free ticket. don't know how he had the connection with the ⁓ late TWA and it started very well because I got bumped into business class. it was really amazing. I probably had 500 dollars in my pocket, but I was in business class. That was first time of my life, obviously. ⁓ yeah, I mean, you know, I just.

Alan Li (02:13)
Okay.

Wow.

stephan (02:36)
you and I didn't think I was going to stay that long. I had a six month tourist visa and you know, I really felt that I thought that was going to, you know, be there for about six months and probably traveled to Central America, Mexico. mean, you know, I had, I just wanted to go around. Yeah.

Alan Li (02:41)
I see.

⁓ so

it was more of, I want to come visit the US. It wasn't, I want to stay here for the next 40 years to build my career.

stephan (03:00)
Correct, I didn't know what I wanted. I knew that I needed to bite into life and obviously you go to the Big Apple, it makes a lot of sense. And I knew I needed some more experience, I needed to be exposed to a different culture, even though I had been when I was young with my family history and some travel as well.

Alan Li (03:02)
Got it.

stephan (03:29)
I needed more and I knew that New York could be the right place for me at the time.

Alan Li (03:35)
Okay,

great. ⁓ So tell me how you got this dish washing job, ⁓ how you got exposed to the restaurant industry and what did you think of it?

stephan (03:44)
So I had worked in restaurants as a student back in Paris, you know, to make some money, you know, just go out and, you know, ⁓ enjoy like the side life, you know, besides being a student. So I had an experience in that, not a big one. And I was not particularly attracted ⁓ by it, but, you know, I like to go to restaurants myself, obviously, like ⁓ all of us. And, you know, being French, you kind of,

Alan Li (04:09)
Sure.

stephan (04:14)
It's part of who you are because obviously France is big in terms of culinary world, but also people go to restaurants, go to cafes. So it's part of their life. So my friend and I ⁓ moved to New York. He came a couple of weeks before me. So he found an apartment in the West Village, ⁓ a small ⁓ railway apartment with no doors.

But I remember, you know, getting there, it was like ⁓ Indian summer and, you know, put my bags down. What was funny actually was on Jones Street. ⁓ And I knew the street because, you know, during acting school, was fond of reading biographies of different actors. I knew that Kirk Douglas had lived there when he himself moved to

⁓ I moved to Manhattan, but ⁓ in the cab, taking me from JFK, I said John Street. And John Street is a different street. It's not John Street, you know, to tell you, you know, I still have a strong accent, but at the time I didn't know where to place it. So it takes me down that alley, which at the time was kind of sketchy. ⁓ You know, it was off Lafayette Street, but you know, behind, you know, what used to be Time Cafe at the time, think it's Lafayette Bakerina. And, but the alley, you know,

Alan Li (05:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

stephan (05:38)
Today Manhattan is so posh, right? Everywhere. But at the time he wasn't. And I'm like, oh, I'm not sure it's there. And then I show him the address and he's like, oh, John Street, know, like with those. And I was like, right. And then it drives me to that other place and I'm at the corner of Bleecker, actually, no, West Forth and John Street.

Alan Li (05:44)
Yeah.

stephan (06:06)
put my bags down, I gotta tell you, right there, right then, I knew it was the place for me. I fell in love with New York instantly. It was a beautiful day. I don't know, I saw the people walking back and forth. I was blown away, it was like in a movie. And I knew right away that it was a great place. What's funny is because of the little detour, my friend ⁓ realized that I was late.

Alan Li (06:12)
Wow.

stephan (06:34)
And ⁓ he had just come down and left a note on the door to tell me where to meet him. but fortunately he was right there because I had my two bags and everything. So I didn't have to hop wherever he was telling me to meet him, but he was telling me to meet me, to meet him. And after we dropped my bags upstairs, we went to that place that was called the Figaro Cafe. And it was great because the village at the time, it has changed a lot, but the Figaro Cafe was on Bleecker.

I don't think it exists anymore, maybe it does, but it was part of those old ⁓ Italo-American cafe, part of the tradition in the village. And it was very similar to what we have in France. And we went there, we sat outside, had a coffee. It was amazing. And it's there that we met a really fine young guy. ⁓ His name was Kenny because

His real name was something else I forgot, he was originally from Kenya. he would, ⁓ tall, flamboyant, Kenyan, super nice. And when he heard that we were French, he jumped on us. he was, he was, he was really like, I don't know, character of the neighborhood. You everyone left and right, you know, very, and he's the one that got me to, ⁓

I a job as a dishwasher, dishwasher busboy, and another cafe. There was also the Italian American cafe that was this time on Prince Street, right off West Broadway. It was called Cafe Borgia 2 because they had a first one and that was the second one. It was so tiny. was 350 square feet and making coffee there and it was the best time of my life. It was great.

Alan Li (08:06)
Mm.

Okay.

So tell me what happens after you get the job as a dishwasher and how you progress and move through other restaurants.

stephan (08:33)
So first of all, I got the job, but not right away. mean, it took us a little while. For me, it took me at least two or three weeks to feel that past the shyness of speaking English or trying to speak to people, talk to people in English because I was very, very green. But we went through four weeks running out of money. We were really desperate to find a gig. And that's when I started there. If I tell you at the time, well,

Alan Li (08:36)
Mm.

stephan (09:01)
I know it's 1987, but I was making $125 a week. But I would get free food. And at night, I would prepare a sandwich for my friend. mean, there were days that we only had a loaf of bread and butter and honey, but we did not complain. little by little, I had some connections from friends that got me to meet someone who was a

So all those guys that passed, it's so sad. that guy that I met afterwards was a friend of a family friend and he had a restaurant. He had a restaurant in Trump Tower, as a matter of fact, it called Beast Road. And his name was GP, we would call him GP. And ⁓ he wasn't able to hire me because everything was union and I didn't have papers. I mean, I have social security. So he was like, look, I can't. But he was a very nice guy.

very established, know, dating a model and this and that. He took me under his wing. It was probably, I don't know, 12, 15 years older than me. And he would take me out at night to clubs. So I was living a life, even though I didn't have money, I was going to those beautiful clubs and this and that. And one night, so he was from Monte Carlos, who was French Monégasque. But one night he takes me to that club, forgot the name. It was by the 59 Bridge or something.

And there's that other French guy who runs the joint. He's some kind of owner or managing partner. And he said, oh, well, yeah, we're going to take care of you, this, that. Why don't you go to Le Bilboquet? And I didn't know where he was. First of all, that was not really a neighborhood I was going to because it was the beginning of the Upper East Side. Bilboquet right now is on 60th right of Madison. At the time, it was 63rd Street. And they tell me to go there.

Alan Li (10:43)
Mm.

stephan (10:55)
So I go there the next day, I make sure I on nice, crisp, ⁓ white shirt and slacks. And what I had, it's relevant for the story because what I had, I had a very nice pair of shoes. And I was in two shoes at the time and it was really nice and it was a double buckle, English shoes, whatever.

And I got there, I made sure I went there after ⁓ lunch, ⁓ so I thought was finished. What was very funny with Billboard at the time, was a tiny box that had no name on the owning. ⁓ It was it was unlisted. It really, really was kind of a kind of a private club mentality. And I didn't know any of that. But when I passed the door, I thought that it was ⁓ so, as I said, thought it was not if not closed, finished.

Alan Li (11:38)
Mm-hmm.

stephan (11:48)
There were three or four tables. It was probably about 2.30 in the afternoon. But as soon as I passed the door, I recognized two tables. were the corner tables. The space was done with the bar was in front of you, but tables were in front of it. And you have two blankets. There was, I don't know, 16 tables, I think. And I recognize on the left corner, which was the real big table, I recognize a famous Swedish model.

because she was a star in France at the time that I left France and she was in all and, you know, I became friends with her over the years. But at the time she was, I was like, wow, look at her. I'm like, wow, where am I? And then I see the other corner and I'm a big tennis fan. I was a tennis player myself, not a big one, otherwise we know that, but I recognized John McEnroe's parents. And this is in a 350 or 400 feet square feet.

Alan Li (12:18)
huh.

⁓ wow.

stephan (12:44)
restaurant and I'm in New York and wow and I'm like right away I got a sense of where I am that it's a special place so I want the job I make $125 a week I'm like wow and I asked for Philippe the owner who became my mentor and one of my best friends to this day and he said yeah what is it you a little bit like you know what you would imagine of a French restaurateur a little bit like a road right and I

And I say, well, I'm looking for Philippe. What do want? said, well, know, so and so told me to come here maybe for a job. We have nothing. And but as he's saying that, he said, come over here, you know, like approach him. And and then he looks at me from from head to toe twice and he sees my shoes. And he says, well, we have nothing but can you button? I'm like, sure. I didn't know anything. I I barely drunk at the time.

Alan Li (13:21)
Hehehe.

stephan (13:40)
⁓ And he says, okay, come tomorrow. But I don't pay a lot. I pay $35. And I was like, sure. And that's how I got the job. The first job, you know, more in the restaurant industry. You know, that's how it happened. And I went the next day. I mean, it lasted only three days because, but then I was not really hired, but then someone said, you should call this guy. And ⁓ he eventually called me back. And six months later, I was the waiter manager there.

Alan Li (13:52)
Wow.

stephan (14:10)
And also it was really and I got into the business really because of him because he's still alive. He's not that old. But he's an incredible professional that passed me a passion and the passion of hospitality. It all started there.

Alan Li (14:10)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ now thank you for sharing the stories. I'm sure you have many and many of these with also, you know, John George and Danielle and, ⁓ and then so many of these great stories, but, ⁓ you know, tell me a bit about when you decided to break out on your own. And it's like, I need to start my own restaurant. I'm moving to Dallas, walk me through that thought process.

stephan (14:35)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I work for those guys. Yeah.

So, you know, it's all related to my wife, to be honest. So I did many things, but very early on I realized that I wanted to stay. I mean, very early on, maybe not, because at some point I became manager of other restaurants. ⁓ then at some one time that I was the general manager of a restaurant, it didn't go so well. I was too green. And ⁓ I decided ⁓

Alan Li (14:59)
Mm.

stephan (15:23)
to quit, so I did, and that's when I worked for Jean-Georges. And they offered me to become a manager many times there, but ⁓ I was not interested, but I worked for three years for him, and I was blown away by the level of expertise and the level of, you know, everything was done in a way that was, I mean, that's Jean-Georges, and you know, he's today, because it was kind of at the beginning, and I went to him, we were friendly,

Alan Li (15:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

stephan (15:53)
I mean, Daniel used to come to Bill Bouquet on Sundays when he was off, when he was the sous chef at Le Cirque, you know, to get a steak tartare. So, Jean-Georges, all of us, we kind of knew each other. Of course, I was not at the same level than those guys, but, you know, they were good guys and they were, you know, there was a French connection there. So, I knew Jean-Georges and he had opened Jojo before his first restaurant, after his first restaurant in New York. I was blown away by the food there. And then he opened Vong, which was his French-Thai fusion.

And it had opened not a long time ago. And then I went to ask for a job there, which I eventually got. At first, I didn't have anything, but anyway, I got it. And I worked there for three years. I got to tell you, the first two weeks, I thought I was not going to make it. And I was a very, very good waiter. But all the ingredients, everything, mean, you had to, as a captain, you had to have such ⁓ knowledge.

Alan Li (16:49)
Yeah.

stephan (16:49)
Uh,

you know, it's, it's, it's just a different world. And, uh, eventually I made it. I stayed there for three years and I really. I don't know. I loved it, but I was not ready to be still a manager. And at the time I went back to France, um, and, you know, I went back to France for about a year, uh, but I missed New York. I I in central America, came back to New York and, and, and started to work again at Bill Bookett and, and Philippe.

my friend kept on telling me, let's do another Bilboke, do this or do that. But it was not happening. And at some point, I met my wife, who was very important today in my organization, by the way. But at the time, she was ⁓ finishing college as art student. And ⁓ she was more like,

Alan Li (17:31)
Yeah.

stephan (17:42)
what are you doing in restaurant? Why are you a waiter? You could have been a lawyer. You're from Paris. Why did you move here? mean, what's funny? Not in a mean way. Plus she had lived herself for about six years in Europe when she was young and four years in Paris. She had that fantasy that she was going to marry a French guy and live in Paris. So suddenly she met one, but he wanted to be a waiter or a glorified waiter slash manager in a restaurant in New York. It didn't make sense to her.

Alan Li (17:47)
Yeah.

Mm.

Sure.

Yeah.

stephan (18:11)
And ⁓ but because I fell so much in love with her and I wanted to be with her, said, you know what? I need to build myself a life. cannot, you know, I cannot depend on someone else. So I did open a restaurant at the time ⁓ in New York. ⁓ And but that was shortly. It was right before September 11th. And and yeah, and the business did not take off. And and, you know,

Alan Li (18:33)
wow.

stephan (18:39)
⁓ We moved together, we moved to Paris for a couple of years. I worked for Alain Ducasse over there, then came back to New York, worked for five years as the GM for the Boothouse in Central Park, which was a very, very formative experience as well. And then I went to open as a partner a business in the meat packing and that was a sour partnership, dear workout. And I was not making any money and I turned to my wife and said, look,

We need to get out of New York. It's too much. But by then I was already like, you know, 45. And, and, and, uh,

Alan Li (19:17)
What do you mean it was too

much? It's, it's, what does that mean?

stephan (19:20)
It's

a right race. I think that New York, when you're in your 20s, you can live on the mattress, on the floor and have the best life. And you're in your 30s, you start making a bit of money, you go out, you live the life that you shouldn't because you should save money. But you you're taking it to that rhythm where you think there's no tomorrow. You pass your 40s, if you have a wife, a kid, everything, it starts to be...

really difficult unless you make a lot of money. And it's one of these times. We had a kid that was born in Paris. ⁓ She's 22 now. So it was just not making any sense because I was making very good money, ⁓ but not saving anything, not even being able to go back to France on vacation, see my family. So I was like, what's the point? And I looked at her and I said, look, we got to get out of here. We got to go someplace else. She was not.

Alan Li (19:50)
Yeah. Yeah. And you had a kid at this time.

Okay.

stephan (20:18)
happy about it but she knew that that was what we needed to do and her mother is originally from Dallas. But my wife never lived here. She lived here six months when she was very young because her dad passed away but she was born in Mexico, Mexico City from a Mexican dad and her mom was from here and her mom had relocated here a year prior. I had been in Dallas quite a few times. My first time was

Alan Li (20:25)
Mmm.

stephan (20:47)
was in 2005. And, you know, the real side story there is that, you know, my office where I am, Dilbuk is right across, right? And about a block away, block and a half, not even, there's a Starbucks where at the time, ⁓ it was like, end of December between Christmas and New Year's. ⁓ Because the weather was so nice. We had been in that place that was like a very, very old pharmacy, like drugstore where they would make the sodas, know, with the

Alan Li (21:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

stephan (21:16)
with a spoon and everything.

And we had a grilled cheese, There was memory lane for them. They used to go, the family with the grandparents, right? And I wanted a coffee. I'm being French, restaurateur. I'm a snob when it comes to coffee. Although many Americans are more snobby than me now, but their coffee. But there was a Starbucks across the street while they were, you know, serving drip coffee where we were. I'm like, you know, Starbucks will do. I need a double espresso.

So we go there and we sat down and we were outside and we're pictures of the day. And I looked at my wife and said, you know, it's really nice here. And she said, I love it. I said, good, because I think we should move here. And she looks at me like I'm totally crazy. And ⁓ she goes, ⁓ what are you talking about? Why do you like it so much here? And I said three or four random things like, well, the weather is nice, people are nice, it's clean, whatever, right? And she goes, you know, you don't make any sense, right?

Like maybe, but maybe you could have another kid. then I tried to push my case and because I'm so tired of the first season I did at the boathouse, which was horrendous. It was so tough. I say, and not knowing what to say, say, well, I'm sure for business it's going to be, it could be great. And she looks at me and say, what, what, what are you going to do here? And I said, maybe open a little billbokeh around here. It's a block away.

Alan Li (22:37)
Mm.

stephan (22:39)
And she looked at me and said, you must be out of your fucking mind. But, you know, and then I did, but I did, you know, I did. that was 2005 open in 2013. did eight, eight years later, but I had that vision that it could be the right place because you know, New York, Hey, you're one of, of many New York is one of the most incredible places because you have all that energy, all that creativity. People come from.

Alan Li (22:45)
But you did.

stephan (23:07)
over the state but all over the world and the melting pot creates that emulation. But you're also one of so many and I felt that you know what in Dallas I was going to be more unique and it was going to be somehow easier. It's never easy but easier and I just needed a break.

Alan Li (23:27)
Yeah, a bigger fish in a slightly smaller pond. ⁓ So tell me about how you opened in Dallas and where you got the funds from, how you found the space. Talk to me about the details.

stephan (23:30)
Exactly.

So, look,

I don't know what say, but mean, there many people sometimes you see on podcasts or others that are very successful. And I like the ones that say the truth. And the truth to me, you know, ⁓ it doesn't matter how intelligent, how bright, how gifted you are, if you don't get a break, that comes from luck.

Alan Li (23:55)
Yeah, well, if we want the truth.

stephan (24:08)
It is true in 99 % of cases. Of course, have some people, they're so brilliant. They don't need the luck. They're going to attract the luck to themselves, right? But for most of the models, I think that you need some luck. And I got that luck. And that luck was a gentleman that became a very, good friend of mine that I didn't know at the time, but I had lunch at Bill Bocay in New York next to two friends of mine.

one of them being a painter artist. And I think that the couple from Dallas that had been to ⁓ galleries and they had books of galleries. So they started to engage in conversation and say, where are you from? And we're from Dallas and they were somehow regulars of Bilboquet like many people were over the years. You have to realize that Bilboquet ⁓ next June is going to celebrate 40 years of existence. it's, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Alan Li (25:03)
Wow, I gotta go visit.

stephan (25:08)
The new place is great, but the old one was magical. And I wish you had known that one. So the tables were so close to each other, you were really rubbing shoulders with people, which is so funny because you had like the A-list of the world going there. you you're a young guy and everything, not coming from anywhere, you could be part of it. It was more about like, you know, putting the right people together. was really...

Alan Li (25:11)
Sure. Sure.

stephan (25:35)
master at that, Philippe. so they say, we're from Dallas. So they're like, ⁓ Stephan is opening Bill Bocquet in Dallas. Because then you, when I moved here, I asked Philippe if he would let me open a Bill Bocquet here. And he was even supposed to be ⁓ my partner. said, yeah, Dallas is great. He had never set foot in Dallas. He's crazy. so they, Gil, my friend, his name is Gil Bising, ⁓ turns to Philippe, he you're opening in Dallas.

⁓ And Philippe is yeah, yeah, it's done, whatever. Doesn't even, well, that's where we're from. And I know you certainly don't want any partners or this, but if you need some help, I'm in real estate. In a very humble way, because people down here, it's very different with New York, right? New York, you're gonna meet people that right away want to tell you how important they are. And sometimes they are, but sometimes there's a lot of talk there.

Alan Li (26:16)
Mmm. Mmm.

or boastful.

stephan (26:33)
Yeah, town people are probably a little bit more, if not humble, mean, more reserved about that, but they're very, very welcoming and they really want to help. They're genuine about that. you know, Philippe did not even, I mean, he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're opening and he went on to do something else. He did not sit with the guy, did not get his phone number. But my friend that was sitting next to them did. And a couple of days later, I'm meeting with him.

Alan Li (26:56)
Yeah.

stephan (27:00)
And he's the one that helped me put a group of investors and, you know, yeah, yeah, and ⁓ yeah, he's been extremely ⁓ helpful and influential and, you know, that's how it happened. So we found, I found a small group of people that, and they were really not, they were not in for the money. That's what is interesting. They were in for bringing something to the community. Dallas 14 years ago, when I moved here was, I mean,

Alan Li (27:05)
incredible.

Yeah.

stephan (27:29)
Look, it was already the fifth of six largest cities in America and a very, very strong economy. But there was not a lot going on. mean, lately, lots of groups from New York, from L.A., from everywhere are coming here. But at the time, it the case. So to have Bill Bocquet, which for a certain type of crowd was a big name, even though there was only one, it was small in New York, it was relevant.

Alan Li (27:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

stephan (27:58)
And they were excited about it. As

a matter of fact, another ⁓ investor of mine also became a friend, he and his wife, they lived in New York, but not together. ⁓ She worked at the time, I think for JP Morgan, and she used to go to Gilbert King, New York, ⁓ because she was in her 20s and living the life and everything. And once she got married to that other gentleman, ⁓ they used to go to ⁓

Alan Li (28:16)
Mm.

stephan (28:28)
The space that is Bill Bocquet now used to be a restaurant. There was also a French restaurant. It was very old and the crowd was already in the 70s and everything. But they loved the French food, so they would go there. And she kept telling him that, oh, this would be perfect for Bill Bocquet. So that was really, it was kind of in the stars, you know? So look.

Alan Li (28:44)
Yeah. I want to dive.

Yeah. No, no. Thank you for sharing. I want to dive in this later because I have noticed this trend, I think probably in 2010s where ⁓ you're bringing New York-esque quality restaurants to other places and doing really well like yourself. And we had a guest on a few weeks ago, Ben Burr, bringing like a butcher style steakhouse to Houston and has also done really well. So.

⁓ It does seem ⁓ smart and I'd be curious to hear ⁓ what you think the next trend is and writing that curve up. But before we do and get into that, ⁓ how much investment did you have to raise for Bill Bocke in Houston?

stephan (29:27)
Bill Bocquet was actually pretty cheap. It was less than a million dollar at the time, but it was also a small restaurant, know, shy of 2000 square feet plus a little side patio that we covered and where we brought the HVAC. it's a total today of probably 23 or 2400 square feet. it's a small space. so it was and it was, you know, before

Alan Li (29:34)
Okay.

Okay.

stephan (29:55)
covid so the prices were more normal than they are today.

Alan Li (29:59)
Sure.

Okay, so how ⁓ did the first year go after opening or were there any hiccups with opening?

stephan (30:06)
So

yes, there were, there's always e-cups. So at the time, you know, what happened also is that I was not fully involved at first. Let me explain why. ⁓ came from New York, not making any money for better year. So I came, you know, I had lots of debts, you know, that fortunately I paid off over the years, but I was in a situation that was difficult and I found a job here.

It took me about a year and half to open from the time that we arrived to Dallas to the time that we opened. because I didn't find a location right away, I found someone that was going to help me do so. And he was tremendous ⁓ in achieving that. you know, he couldn't stop right off. And I found a job as a consultant that became a job of a director of operation for ⁓ FNB for a big real estate guy that had

you know, many buildings, this, that, and it was a good paying job, you know, and it gave us stability and my wife, you know, when I signed the lease of Bilbo Cave, she was very scared because I was coming out of an experience where it didn't work. ⁓ she said, okay, you can do it, but I want you to do it with a partner. And I don't want you to ⁓

leave your job. So suddenly, I had to manage to open what was my dream because I wanted really to be my own, you know, boss and, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, that's all you think about. It's not about the money. It's about, it's a certain form of freedom, even though you realize that you work so much. yeah, exactly. But you have that urge of really making your own decisions and going and choosing

Alan Li (31:50)
You work more. You work more.

stephan (31:59)
Yeah, choosing your path. So I brought on someone who was a very good friend of mine and that I'd worked in New York for many, many years, but that knew from high school in Paris, believe it or not. So we had very powerful path all our lives. We were not best friends in high school, but once we realized that we're both in New York, we became friends. And ⁓ I offered him to come and be my partner. That did not work well. he had things that happened in his private life with his

girlfriend at the time, but that became the mother of his child that couldn't renew her visa and this and that. It's just that his implication in the business was not the best. but also he came with the wrong, not just attitude, but he did not adjust well to what Dallas is. And even though I had told him, said, look, you got to be extremely humble coming here.

Alan Li (32:34)
I

stephan (32:57)
It's not New York, it's not Paris and you're from Paris and you are a New York restaurateur. So you're to have to live that off completely. And when you think being that you're being humble, it's going to be even more than that because otherwise people are going to, well, I'll tap you on the back, say, yeah, yeah, that's great. And then they're never going to come back. And you say, yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course. He did all the opposite. He was, he was so difficult with people. mean, someone would ask him for a

He was rude and he was, I mean, I don't know. mean, there was an example. I couldn't believe he said that, but you know, where, where, ⁓ you know, someone asked for black dabkin. said, well, this is not a Chinese restaurant. And I'm like, I said, no, how can you say those things? This is just wrong. And this is like, so I realized that he was going to run the business to the ground, you know, and, I got rid of him, but ⁓ we had to rebuild.

Alan Li (33:43)
Hmm.

Yeah.

stephan (33:56)
And as a matter of fact, you know, we, when I took over, I still had my job, but I told the staff, I said, look, you know, I'm so sorry because I made a wrong choice, putting the wrong person here. And there's going to be a big shift because this place has been, from what I understand now, has been the house of no. People wanted a black night king. People wanted to...

switched their garnish to people who wanted to sit at a different table. Everything was so strict and, you know, like we're, you know, making them, doing them a favor to dine with us. And I say, you know, this is, this place has been the house of no. And today it's going to become the house of yes, because that's what hospitality is about. And if there's something you cannot do for the guests, they have to perceive it as

Alan Li (34:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

stephan (34:53)
Well, it's really impossible, but that it breaks your heart not to be able to deliver. And we, we, we switch and it was very hard because six months into ⁓ having open also the winter was very hard. one of the first, you know, ⁓ very cold winter that lasted in Dallas, which is not frequent, but that's since happened more than not. And, you know, we, it's a small restaurant, but there were nights Monday night or Tuesday night where the restaurant was

empty, like eight covers. And so we had to rebuild it. ⁓ And you know, my motto is always one day at a time, one customer at a time. That's what we did. You know?

Alan Li (35:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. ⁓

Can you talk a little bit about the numbers of, how much was the restaurant bringing in? Were you guys profitable? What are the margins?

stephan (35:38)
Yeah. So it's...

So, first year, we made what I projected, was not a lot, it was $2.4 million. And we kind of broke even. Today is a little bit difficult to establish because we have a major construction that has been going on right in front. I don't know if you know about that, but it's a Michael Dell project with Auberg.

Alan Li (35:51)
Okay.

Mm.

stephan (36:11)
hotel and condominiums and these three huge towers. It's going to be amazing, but the past two years have been extremely challenging. At a time, there were 350 trucks coming in and out all day long to remove the gravel. It was a disaster, the dust. There's a lot of people that I've kind of put across right now on this block. ⁓ Three of our restaurants are right there, so it's been tough. But to give you an idea,

Alan Li (36:15)
⁓ that's going to be great for the restaurant then.

man.

Yeah.

stephan (36:40)
So first year we 2.4, I think we went second year 2.7 and 3.2 and 3.8. So we kept on growing to a point that, you know, until three years ago, we were in the $6 million range. within 10 years, yeah, within 10 years, was phenomenal. know, so it's been now this year is a different story. But maybe we'll go back. It's just that

Alan Li (36:49)
Yeah.

Sure, sure.

stephan (37:10)
And now today also, it's going to be 13 years in May that we've opened. So we really established. We brought more restaurants also. So we were a small group. But I think that we brought something that was different and that resonated with a lot of people. we're not in a bad place. It's just that construction has to be over. It's going to be over in about six months.

Alan Li (37:15)
Yes.

Sure, seems temporary. ⁓ So I know Bilboquet was your first one, but you also have, I believe, other different concepts that are kind of clustered around the same area, loosely with the French tilt ⁓ cuisine style.

stephan (37:45)
Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. So,

you know, yeah, it's interesting because, ⁓ once, once bill bookie became, ⁓ became really successful, I was approached by many developers and real estate people to do another bill book elsewhere. Houston and North, ⁓ North Dallas, like legacy and these, and that, ⁓ but first bill bookie is not my brand.

chose finally to license it to me. He was himself relocating his old billboard case. So it became too much for him. So we stayed very close. think he helped him in some way because to have at some point where the only one open because he had to close his. ⁓ And ⁓ so it also showed him that he could branch out elsewhere, which maybe he wasn't so sure of, you know, for some time.

But again, it wasn't my brand. wasn't my decision to add a right of first refusal on all of Texas. But, ⁓ you know, there was that. ⁓ there was also the fact that I was a bit reluctant to take my eyes off the bowl and thinking that, you know, you have a restaurant that works well. Okay, it might work very well for two or three years.

And then suddenly the things that happen, you have someone that opens around the corner that takes some of your business because they do something that is comparable or similar or better. And how do you, how do you react to that? You know, so when you open a restaurant in another city, ⁓ you know, it's, it's, it's not that easy. ⁓ and for

Alan Li (39:22)
Yeah.

You're saying it's harder

to manage remotely? Yes, for sure.

stephan (39:36)
Of course, it is

way harder. ⁓ so at some point my friend, Gil, the one that really helped me here said, you because I ⁓ shared with him those concern and that was like, look, I would love to grow and have people with me that, you know, also going to need to make more money. know, my Ryan guy was a managing partner, Edward was with me since day one. came as a waiter, ⁓ you know,

captain, waiter, but he became the manager very, quickly and now he's the director of operation. This is the guy that has been with me for 13 years. ⁓ in the meantime, built a family with his girlfriend at the time, now wife, with three kids that go to, ⁓ some of them go to private school and this and that, people around you, you have to make sure that they can also have a good life. ⁓ You know, and ⁓ so I was like,

Alan Li (40:14)
Yeah.

Yes.

stephan (40:36)
Hey, it be good if I can do something else. And he said, you know what? Do something in the same neighborhood. then a space, a block away became available. that was at the time we called it Up on Knox. And I'll get back to that. But now it's called Knox Bistro. And it's a block away. so Bill Bocquet was in 2013. The other one was 2016. And later on, in between those two,

So in the same building that I have built, we opened Georgie, and that was late 2019. And about a year ago, we opened two concepts. It's one entity, but two concepts that are just three blocks down, one straight off. And that street is on what's called the Katy Trail. It's a little bit like the High Line in New York. It used to be a railroad that has been about 40 years ago now.

Alan Li (41:08)
Georgie. 19, yep.

Okay. Yep.

stephan (41:32)
transform into a beautiful promenade where everyone jogs and this and that. And we have two concepts there. One is called Le Passage. It's a French Asian ⁓ restaurant. Another one is the Rose Cafe, which is more ⁓ French, Vietnamese, Cambodian. Our chef there is from Cambodian origin. ⁓ And most recently, back in late June, we opened one in a different neighborhood, not very far, 10 minutes drive. It's called Frenchy. So we have six.

Alan Li (41:59)
Yeah,

stephan (42:01)
6-7 concept, we also have

Alan Li (42:01)
different concepts.

stephan (42:02)
a little thing there, but five entities. But the thread of the French happened because of Up on Knox. When we open Up on Knox, so it's a block away, right? But the other block, there's another restaurant from a restaurateur who I know was a friend. It's called Toulouse.

And the landlord of the time, not my landlord at Bilboquet, but the landlord of the new space was also the landlord of Toulouse. And we're just very, very afraid that we would cannibalize the business by having three French restaurants within two blocks. And I said, OK, not that I agree with that, because you go to France, you can have

Alan Li (42:46)
Yeah.

stephan (42:55)
1500 French restaurants and they all, maybe there's more French people there, right? ⁓ And I said, okay, I understand. I came up with a different concept that was called Uppernocks. It was more of a Texas brasserie. had, you know, the oyster platter and we had, I mean, we had two very talented chefs. One was a Korean American and his wife.

⁓ from here, from Dallas. He was from Boston, she was from here. But they had come from very good restaurant in LA, so there was that couple that worked. ⁓ But that did not work out. And I realized for a couple of reasons. One was that the neighborhood was not yet ready to embrace ⁓ something that was, I don't know, a bit more edgy than what they were used to.

You know, like you go to the East Village in New York, you go to LA, you know, even Miami, know, those cities always had ⁓ very, very creative emulation, you know, in restaurants. ⁓ The neighborhood we are in, you know, is right next, it's a block away from the most affluent neighborhood in Dallas, which is called Highland Park.

It's very similar to Bevel Hills in LA. It was the same architects that designed it. So, you know, I would say that, you know, people are a bit more conservative. And when it comes to food, you know, they also live less adventures. And this neighborhood is changing because now it's changing. But at the time, was a little bit hard. You needed them to really be your loyal base. And we failed to, we failed to...

Alan Li (44:20)
Okay, got it.

I

stephan (44:46)
you know, just resonate with them. And, ⁓ but also the other thing was that I realized that me being French and coming now with Bill Bocquet, ⁓ people expected something else from me. And it's very interesting because, you know, you open restaurants, ⁓ like anything you do, you know, when you create something, you have your own ideas and you have your vision.

And at the end, the customer that decides what it should be or not. And sometimes you nail it. But most of the time, you have to adjust it to whoever has become your clientele and who's ready to support you. And you have to listen to them. ⁓ I, you know, right after COVID, I partnered with a French chef, Bruno, Bruno Davaillon, who's very, very important to me today, who's also a partner.

And we decided to transition from Upper Knox to Knox Bistro and reinforce the French identity. Luckily enough, the decor was already very French brasserie. So we just added more lamps and mirrors and stuff. there was no, it was really about the food and to go ⁓ into a direction that is very different from Bilboquet. ⁓ There's not one dish in common. ⁓ But, you know, we realized that, I realized that that's what

Alan Li (45:54)
Mm-hmm.

stephan (46:12)
what people were expecting from me. And sales started to go up and people started to rediscover it and say, well, you know what, we love it. We put table fluff, you know, it's always, you know, I like to say that besides selling food, good food, good wine, good service, I'm in the business of perception.

Alan Li (46:33)
Mmm.

stephan (46:34)
It's how people, it's the perception that they have of what you do and what you should be doing that makes you successful or not. And yeah, you have to, you have to respect that.

Alan Li (46:46)
You're saying you have to match the perception?

stephan (46:49)
as much as you can. Of course, you have to keep your integrity. Like most recently, we have a new young chef, Armand, very talented. He worked for us a few years back. His mother is American from San Antonio, but his dad is French and he was back in Paris for four years. Came back, we decided to put a foie gras on the menu. It can be controversial, but still, we love it.

You know, I read in the report that the manager sent every night, that the person that say, oh, you know, they say the foie gras, the taste was good, but it was too hard. They should be soft and this and that. And we talked about it with him and Bruno, my partner yesterday. And I was like, look, he say, what, you know, what do you want me to do? I say, I don't want you to do anything. Your foie gras is one of the best I ever had in my life. So sometimes you have to choose to educate people. But I said, you know,

But the way to do it, you don't want to lecture the customer once he has brought up a criticism. But what you can do is that we can teach our waiters, our managers, exactly why the foie gras is like that. Why? Because foie gras, don't know if you like foie gras yourself, foie gras terrine, it has to come out from the fridge and cold because as it warms up, it's going to become

Alan Li (48:15)
melt.

stephan (48:16)
it will melt too much if you don't serve it like that. It's not a mousse. It doesn't have the same ingredients. So you know it. so sometimes, know, criticism, you have to accept and evolve. Sometimes you just have to listen to them and choose a way to address them.

Alan Li (48:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, is this ⁓ because I read somewhere that you had this philosophy that the customer is not always right. Is that part of this philosophy that we're talking about?

stephan (48:44)
Correct.

It

is, but it doesn't mean that you have to rub it in their face. You have to be respectful. They made a clear choice and decision to come to your house. They passed the door, there are many choices. You have to respect that at the highest level. ⁓ so in that sense, it's counterintuitive to say the customer is not always right. But you have to find ways with that being

Alan Li (48:51)
Hmm.

Yes.

stephan (49:17)
rude or without being dismissive, you have to find ways to keep your integrity and to make sure that you don't, know, otherwise you're going to go crazy. It's not doable. I it's not manageable, but there are ways to do that, you know. I think that most of the time, you know, as guests, we enter a restaurant and within a very short time,

Alan Li (49:27)
Yeah.

stephan (49:46)
we decide subconsciously or not, if this is the right place for us or not. It's almost sensorial, you know, it's like the lighting, the music, the way you've been greeted. You know, you have many restaurants, especially in New York, right? Where they say you have a reservation. That's the first thing I tell you before telling you good evening, thank you for coming, you know, you're like, you know, is it for me? Of course, it doesn't mean that you're not gonna have a good time. Maybe you can have a great waiter, the great food.

But if not everything is up to par, up to your expectations, you're going to be like, ⁓ that wasn't the right place for me. So, yeah.

Alan Li (50:23)
Yeah, for sure. so

I know we're running up on time here, but I'm curious, where do you see the restaurant landscape evolving now from where it is? Yeah. In Dallas, I guess based on your experience or maybe elsewhere for maybe listeners who are interested in opening a restaurant or do you have any overarching themes of the restaurant industry?

stephan (50:33)
In Dallas?

Yeah, for sure. I look at the trends. think there are some right now that are very strong. You have a lot of solo diners. You have a lot of people that want to eat at bars, at counters, when it wasn't the case 15 years ago. So if you open a restaurant today, you have to think of those things. Have big bars, have places where people can converge and feel that they're part of something. Interestingly, that billboard, you have the room to put a bar. It's just a service bar.

Alan Li (51:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

stephan (51:18)
It still works. ⁓ But these things are important. I would say, you know, what really one of the big things that made me succeed here was the rent. You know, you have something in in in Texas, in Dallas, but in Texas in general, that is very uncommon in the rest of the states, which is that you have a base rent that is pretty low. And then you have a percentage rent above what they call a natural breakpoint. The way it works is that, you know, maybe you're going to spend

Right now in the neighborhood, you're going to be probably at $90 a square foot. which, you know, New York, you're probably a good space. You're at like 250 or 300, maybe, you know, maybe more. and and but you on top of that, you pay what's called triple net, you know, it's insurance, can these that. So it brings you probably from 90 is going to be you to 110 or 120. Eventually, if you make really if you're very successful, you're going to pay

a percentage, the delta on the percentage, which is 6%, that's common. And that's going to bring you, instead of being 120, maybe you're going to be at 150. But it's still going to be much less than if you had a base rent that was already set there. So in other words, the landlords tend to try to work with you on giving you the ability to grow your business the first two or three years. you know, there's one thing we always say in New York for restaurants is location, location, location. This is

absolutely true everywhere. But the other thing is the rent. And sometimes you just are so passionate and so eager to do well that you're a bit dismissive of that. rents are going up. So it's not the same market that it was 10 or 12 years ago, because you have big groups that have come from elsewhere. It's a little bit of a problem, because I would tell you why.

⁓ It's raising the labor cost because everyone is fighting enough for the same people. ⁓ I've always made the choice to pay my guys as much as I could and pretty well. I give vacation to people, give health insurance. I'm trying to really make sure that they have something they can rely on. But a prep cook used to pay...

probably at the time, $13 or $14. Now it's tough to find one less than $20. Line cook is tough to find one less than $25. So all that makes everything much more challenging than before, because you have big groups coming from everywhere. And right now, that's the trend. That's the trend in Dallas. Big restaurant, very, that somehow, that a bit, ⁓

Alan Li (53:51)
Mm.

stephan (54:11)
I don't know, a bit like Las Vegas type of, you know, restaurant world. Very scenic. Exactly. That's the right word. I'm not sure that Dallas is so much a town that wants that. They want that to a certain extent, but I'm also not sure that it's a town that can support that. It's growing very fast, but I think there's more restaurants and more apartments growing. mean, it goes faster on that side that the real people coming in. and, and, and the past year,

Alan Li (54:14)
Mm, very sceny.

Yeah, interesting.

stephan (54:42)
I know because we'll talk between us, the business has been done for 90 % of the restaurant here. ⁓ we had a very interesting but very intriguing ⁓ crossroads, I think, in terms of the restaurant world here. ⁓ I don't know. I would say this. would say if that's your passion, if you want to open a restaurant, you open something small that you can control.

every day because that's the way I started with BuildBokeh. I was there every day and you try to keep your expenses as low as possible and wait and wait and see but ⁓ it's going to be interesting. The next two years are going to be ⁓ probably challenging for lot of people.

Alan Li (55:26)
Yeah, no, I think that's very astute advice because rent is your biggest fixed cost that's ongoing. You can maybe flex all the other things up and down, but not not your rent. So awesome. Well, this has been really awesome. The last question I want to ask you is, you know, looking back on your journey over the last call it 30, 40 years ⁓ with 2020 hindsight, is there anything you would have changed if you could go back?

stephan (55:37)
Absolutely.

Alan Li (55:56)
and start all over again.

stephan (55:58)
⁓ I'd love to say no, but no, there's a lot of things that would have changed. You know, look, I think that if I could have had ⁓ from the beginning, someone from a culinary standpoint that was going to be the guarantor of the direction.

Alan Li (56:04)
Good. Let's hear it.

stephan (56:28)
I would have loved that. I was just not able to find one. Now I do. Now I do have one. And I think it's so important to have someone that... The relationship between front of house restaurateur or entrepreneur and chefs are always difficult. It's two different visions ⁓ most of the time that you have to unify. One doesn't work without the other. So we all have to make compromises. It's a marriage. ⁓ And it's...

It's great when you can find someone that has pushed the ego side that is just in connection with you on the financial side of saying, hey, we need people that are going to pass the door to be happy with what we do. How do we make sure that it happens? Because that's how we're going to be successful. That's how we're going to be able to pay everyone. how we're to be able to have

an extra sous chef or an extra pastry chef, you know, and, or an extra manager so that we keep on growing. And, that's the main difficulty in growing. If you have one restaurant, some height easy when you're three, four or five, you need your pendant. And I think that, ⁓ you know, I mean, right now I found him, but it took me a while.

Alan Li (57:51)
Mm.

stephan (57:51)
And it's interesting because a French guy, went on his own at some point and this and that. And, and that's, that saves the day at the end, you know, and you, it's probably easier when you are, ⁓ a chef owner, like a type of Jean-Georges, Jean Daniel, that when you are on the other side of the spectrum. So that's the one thing I would before, before really growing, I would try to find someone that can rely on that would be that guy for me.

Because to change chefs is difficult. has happened to us quite a bit. Most recently, Georgie and finally Bruno, my chef partner, is going to take the helm. And that brings you stability, brings you ⁓ consistency. And that's the one thing. At the end, we're still cooking. It's still food. That's the product. You're selling food. People don't come because you have s**t.

Alan Li (58:43)
Yeah, that's the product. That's the business. Yeah.

stephan (58:50)
this wine or that alcohol, come for the food. It all comes down to that. But of course, everything else, it's share of importance, you know. Yeah.

Alan Li (59:03)
Awesome. Well, it's fun. That's very, you know, I think that's great advice for people who are interested in opening restaurants if they are not a chef themselves. So great. If people want to follow along the journey and learn more and reach out, what's the best way for them to do so?

stephan (59:23)
that again if they want to follow which journey they just to do choice was barely we yeah yeah we so we have we on instagram like everyone else for each other restaurant and for trivis street hospitality as well we have websites trivis street hospitality dot com and le bilboquet dallas dot com and georgie dallas ⁓ nox and and so forth so that's that's where you find us if you if ⁓

Alan Li (59:25)
your journey, Travis Street Hospitality, where can they follow you on the socials?

Okay.

stephan (59:52)
you know, search in your search engine, Trivy Street Hospital, you're gonna find us. By the way, that's where the name comes from, where it started, you know, the three first restaurants on Trivy. So you knew that, and that's why we chose that. Yeah, they can find us there easily. And I hope you, Alan, you have the chance to come and visit ⁓ in Dallas. Have you ever been here?

Alan Li (1:00:08)
Great.

Yeah,

I don't think I've been to Dallas yet, ⁓ but I'll need to come.

stephan (1:00:17)
You're a New Yorker

originally, you were born in New York?

Alan Li (1:00:20)
I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah.

stephan (1:00:22)
In Atlanta, okay.

Well, interesting because there's a bill book in Atlanta. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. Oh, there's been the, it's, it was actually the third after New York Dallas, Atlanta opened. So they've been open for probably, probably 10 years in that posh area where you have all the nice shops and everything. I don't know what you call it. No, no, Is it a Highland Village or something? Highland Village.

Alan Li (1:00:26)
there is now. I didn't.

Okay.

Krog, Krog district.

⁓

It's been a while since I've

stephan (1:00:50)
Yeah, the restoration

hardware and the Hermes and this, mean, you know, whatever. But yeah, there's one there and there's a strong connection between Atlanta and Dallas. Lots of business between the two. So, you know, I see a lot of people coming from there. But

Alan Li (1:01:01)
Okay.

Well, I'll probably have to

stop by the New York one first, then I'll maybe visit Dallas and then I'll go to Atlanta. I will. For sure. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks again, Siphan. Of course.

stephan (1:01:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me know and I'll put you in touch with someone over there. All right. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Alan.

Pleasure. Thank you. Take care.